Category: Let's talk
Hi I know this sounds random but I wondered this, but I was wondering if any research has been done between the correlation between the childhood development of the blind and high functioning autistics (I know technically that's not a medically legal term but you know what I mean). It's not to offend anybody but I'm very curious. I'm not asking if blindness or autism are related directly but from personal experience in a mental/behavioural level it seems to draw some fascinating similarities, with some really peculiar ones that I can't seem to explain, such as rocking back and forth.
I have my reasons but I'm just curious about it, solving this has been my passion lately and any information would be great.
I feel as if that when a child is blind, and the parents do everything for them and treat them like a baby no matter how old they get, they never grow up. So it keeps their mental state like a young child. It makes them dependant on people like a child rather than independant like an older person would be.
My thoughts.
This is sort of interesting. I'll give you my thoughts from a nonmedical background.
Autism is a very broad spectrum, so it's fairly difficult to diagnose a high-functioning autistic early with any pinpoint accuracy. I just want to get that right up front.
That said, however, there has been a lot of study about how and why the blind do some of the odd things some of them do when they're children...why they might rock, spin, click or otherwise stand out. There is research to support the notion that they're trying to provide themselves stimulation. This, I think, might be your strongest link with autism, since some autistic children will seek stimulation in this fashion as well. In many cases, the behavior will look odd to those quote-unquote normal people who witness it, and it can definitely be peculiar but it's often a bit polarizing if it is not, or cannot be, stopped. The blind can usually be coaxed to quit the behavior, while autistic children often continue exhibiting abnormal behavior, to some degree or other.
Beyond that, I don't really see a whole hell of a lot. And having written this post up, I feel as if perhaps it's been more rambling than enlightening, but ah well.
very interesting and i agree with leo
Interesting pondry. It's one I've often had. The reason is because from what I understand many people with autism don't like to make direct eye contact and feel intimidated or uncomfortable when others do. I personally struggle with this characteristic. Of course, I attempt to make eye contact with strangers but it's super uncomfortable for me. Perhaps it's more related to the fact that they can see me but I can't see them and therefore I feel uncomfortably and unequally exposed. Again, they probably have absolutely nothing to do with one another but hey, I'm only 1/3 of the way through my first cup of coffee. lol
Nicki, i agree with you in the majority of cases I know anyway; I never thought of it like that before.
at Nicki: Well either way if a child becomes too dependent on their parents they're going to be rather childish. I know a family with a man with very mild aspergers and his neurotypical brother who both are very childish due to their mother's mollycoddling (and I had to deal with it too, tasted like pure diabetes). On the other side there are autistics who are more severely down the spectrum who are fully capable of living fulfilling, independent lives. Same could happen to blindness, or anything really.
Well I posted this topic out of curiosity, I'm somewhat autistic myself (I have the documentation to support this claim as well) and I find the blind the most comfortable to be around. I have a tendency to stare at people which makes people get uncomfortable, but obviously the blind don't notice. And I get nervous when people look at me dead in the eyes, but of course they're not looking, either. A lot of other nuances exist as well. I feel very comfortable around the blind and they have helped contribute towards me being more successful in a social environment.
I've heard of some correlations since I would have never suspected this before encountering my first blind friend but I was wondering other people's two cents on it. Your input is interesting.
This has made for a very interesting read, and I for one appreciate the discussion. I have not been around too many autistic people though.
I have wondered about this myself. People used to think I was autistick but I am not. My psychiatrist says so. Because I used to have behavour problems as a child. but the psychologist put it down to my blindness and epilepsy. At school I used to see some people rocking back and orward even when they were standing up. Especialy the boys. And when you asked the to stop they said stop what? I wodered why they done it in the first place. This was at the blind school in Edinburgh Scotland. Yes if there parents are over protective then they will grow up with the mental age of a child.
I don't think we can put the sheltered thing in here, because the homeschooled and over-sheltered religious kids have the same troubles. You as a blind adult will be hard pressed to tell, with some of them, if they are ten years old or 15, since you can't see their developed figure. But they act 10. Sheltering and stunting is bad for all humans and other animals. It's what's wrong with lots of lab and zoo animals.
Honestly it's scary to see what happened to these sheltered adults. Like I said, there was also a neurotypical living in the house and while he had a job and a driver's license over his younger autistic brother he still had serious anger management problems (worse than the autistic one) and acted very childish. Something compounding onto that will only make it worse.
I think the behavioural problems stem from a common lack of understanding in visual stimuli. Autistics often do not look at people in the face and do not understand visual body language, which is obviously something that the blind don't understand either. And the stimulation thing makes sense. I wonder why autistics feel the need to be stimulated though. I find myself putting my earphone wires in my mouth all the time for stimulation and it's a really bad habit, but I have no idea why I do it.
Again I think it also causes at least in some cases to be easier to connect with just because I don't worry about blindies getting uncomfortable with how I look at them. If I'm fascinated with someone I stare so it can make some people feel uncomfortable, but obviously a blindie doesn't notice that. It's very relieving and allows me to show off more of my true self. But at the same token I noticed that blindies also have that difficulty and thus feel more natural around me even. Of course it's on an individual basis but yeah. That's my personal experience.
Chewing earphone wires? Wow! I used to do that in school. That was many years ago though. However, I can't imagine how other people can feel comfortable being so still all the time when for me it feels terrible. In order to think and work, I spend time pacing first. I've made a few observations about rocking:
First, some sightlings hate it and others quickly get used to it. When I'm in a place where it really counts like an interview, I make an effort to reduce the frequency and amplitude of my oscillatory motions as much as possible.
Second, my most vigorous rocking seems to occur when I am experiencing an intense emotion. I am sometimes literally moved by music.
This brings up my final thought on rocking, at least for now - has anyone else noticed that rocking changes the information you get from sound? Lets say you were sitting some distance away from a set of sound sources, such as in music. Your rocking motion would mean that the distance between your head and the instruments is always changing a little. Therefore the frequency and angle information you're getting is always a little different, and this might help some people build a picture of what is where in their surroundings.
My olderd brother is blind from birth, on the spectrum, and lives in a group home; I'm totally blind from birth, on the spectrum, and studying computer science at the University of Texas at Austin. Sometimes I wonder why it's not the other way around, but I guess there's no way to know.
Voyager, your point about position and sound and information is valid.
Yes yes yes, I know people, rocking to many is worse than child molestation and any amount of abuse one can heap upon a minor for it physical mental and otherwise in exchange for rocking in your very tiny narrow minds is warranted. good luck with that.
But Voyager I feel your attitudes on this have not only experience but perhaps scientific basis.
I don't know if anyone has ever described how birds function visually and auditoraly to you but they are constantly moving their head. That would make you or I dizzy, unless you are a head-banger, which again would be acceptable if you could see and frowned upon by the religious fundamentalist blind.
Most people think birds are moving their head because of their eyes. Partially correct. But they do this for sound sourcing of prey, like your American Robin locating earthworms under the ground.
There has been recent evidence that aerial predators like rhaptors use their hearing to more finely tune the proximity of prey at close range since they are very far-sighted. And, you guessed it, it's by head movement.
Tell you what: next time you cut up a chicken take a good long look at the neck, and the muscle to bone ratios. Granted, fowl raised for food aren't the best example due to breedinb, but you'll see how flexible that neck really is, considerably more so than ours.
I'm one of those who will feel free to let it happen in private, though it's still a sore topic with much shame attached. It's stigmatized like blacks wearing hooded sweatshirts are now stigmatized, only the hoody stigma got an outcry from the media as a response. Double standards much but I'll continue to call filth as I see it.
There are far worse things you could be doing than wearing a hoody in the rain, or moving slightly back and forth while you are thinking.
Yep, I've never really understood the fiery, almost religious fervor with which some blind people hate rocking and the ones who do it. Yes, extreme cases can draw a lot of unwanted attention (and can be irritating to someone sitting near them) but in cases where you might rock slightly when thinking deeply or listening to music you enjoy, what's the harm, I say. I know someone who occasionally rocks a little when concentrating or listening to music (I don't have this myself, but I understand why someone might do it) and mostly I just don't mind. If he's really going I might put a hand gently on his shoulder and he'd know exactly what I'm getting at, but otherwise, it's not something I care much about. Plenty of sighted people sway to music, for example. Is rocking useful? Maybe. Does it make you look "cool", well, maybe not. But as Leo said, there are far worse things you could be doing, like spinning in place or flapping your arms about. And, as this board topic has already demonstrated, there may even be legitimate reasons to do it, at least sometimes. People come down hard on blindisms (if one can call this type of thing a blindism) because they're not useful and make a person stand out. But what about all the useless things sighted people do, like chewing on a pencil, biting fingernails, fiddling with their fingers or fidgeting, or any number of things people tend to do when thinking hard, or when nervous?
That's an interesting point. One thing I've noticed with people who are both not autistic nor blind is that they have movements and gestures associated with nervousness but suddenly it becomes weird if the autistic/blind/both does it. It doesn't really make much sense.
I have an oral fixation with putting smooth objects in my mouth because I get nervous if I don't do it. Is it really that different from the person who sucks on pens?
Also, I rock considerably to music. It also happens if I'm very nervous or upset. I guess it's some sort of all body stimulation. Is it common for blind people to walk around the home aimlessly because I do that as well for moving my legs and arms around. I get nervous if I don't.
I tend to pace a lot, especially when thinking, so that might be close to what you do. I don't need to do it, I just catch myself doing it and that is a very very normal thing to do. Sighted people do it all the time.
I've heard of pacing, but I get nervous if I don't walk around the house in specific patterns. My family finds it really distracting.
Also I was thinking of Stimulation because my friend's friend (who is also blind) stimulates himself by moving his hands and arms which seems to be mixed up with sighted people, with hand gestures. My friend's girlfriend is acting like it's something emotion based (she apparently claims he's more expressive with his emotions than my friend is), and while stimulation can become more severe when someone is emotional, at least to me I've noticed it's just because it gives the brain something to do. I've read before that with a lack of stimulation it can cause the brain to get very unwired, so I bet that's the cause.